Obama jumped personally into the day's national security fray, telling reporters his Republican critics have no "standing to suggest that they've learned a lot of lessons from 9-11."

Instead, he said, they "helped to engineer the distraction of the war in Iraq at a time when we could have pinned down the people who actually committed 9-11."

Calling Iraq a distraction is why Barack Obama has absolutely no concept of history. Was Germany a distraction in 1942? I don't remember them attacking the US but it sure was a godd idea that we went after them as well as the Japanese wasn't it? The simple fact is that Obama can claim all day long that he was "against" the was in Iraq but the reality is that he wasn't even in the Senate to vote for or against it. Since then he was voted to keep funding the war. So how against the war was he?

I am afraid that he needs to abandon Iraq as an issue because right now Iraq is actually going "well" relatively speaking. it's not an issue that suits him well. All he does with that is open himself up to making McCain look more respectable as a military leader. It's not that I am so much for McCain but I am a realist and Obama needs to abandon this issue because it will come back to bite him in the rear.

Obama revealed himself as just another Republicrat with his promoting a bigger boondoggle in Afghanistan. He's been bought buy the military-industrial complex and has a world view thats a relic of a previous century.

Haigh Wrote:Obama revealed himself as just another Republicrat with his promoting a bigger boondoggle in Afghanistan. He's been bought buy the military-industrial complex and has a world view thats a relic of a previous century.

Obama has the commonn sense that God promised a billy goat.

Obama was given a free-ride by the media. The media has effectively given the people an illusion of "choice", i.e Mccain and Obama. The sad truth is that Obama has given no real solutions to the current financial meltdown.

The real reason for all this is the unprecedented credit creations by the federal reserve. Guys, the US is living beyoung her means. The US is trying to police the world and build empires she can't even afford. To fund this illegal war, the US borrows from China and then prints dollars like nobody's business. THE DOLLAR HAS BEEN RUINED!

Obama never speaks of the real issues. Its a pity, because so many of you guys are being bought into and being caught into his web of lies. Mc Cain is another doofus who holds so substance on many of the important issues. The truth is that both candidates are for bigger government and more spending. They have their vested interests in such matters, and the public suffers.

Sadly, many cannot disect through this obvious data.

Logic Wrote:Obama was given a free-ride by the media. The media has effectively given the people an illusion of "choice", i.e Mccain and Obama. The sad truth is that Obama has given no real solutions to the current financial meltdown.

The real reason for all this is the unprecedented credit creations by the federal reserve. Guys, the US is living beyoung her means. The US is trying to police the world and build empires she can't even afford. To fund this illegal war, the US borrows from China and then prints dollars like nobody's business. THE DOLLAR HAS BEEN RUINED!

Obama never speaks of the real issues. Its a pity, because so many of you guys are being bought into and being caught into his web of lies. Mc Cain is another doofus who holds so substance on many of the important issues. The truth is that both candidates are for bigger government and more spending. They have their vested interests in such matters, and the public suffers.

Sadly, many cannot disect through this obvious data.

So if the was "legal" ti would still be ok? First off the war is NOT illegal. It was authorized by the Congress, UN resolutions were violated, 22 of them to be exact. But again that argument has always been a bad one. Obama's true skill is being able to say nothing better than anyone else. This financial mess is partly on the shoulders of the American people living beyond their means but understand that with regards to subprime mortgages this is completely the fault of Congress, more specifically the DEmocrats who ran Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac intothe ground.

I will agree with yo on one point however. I do not believe that either candidate has a real grasp of economics.

So if the was "legal" ti would still be ok? First off the war is NOT illegal. It was authorized by the Congress, UN resolutions were violated, 22 of them to be exact. But again that argument has always been a bad one. Obama's true skill is being able to say nothing better than anyone else. This financial mess is partly on the shoulders of the American people living beyond their means but understand that with regards to subprime mortgages this is completely the fault of Congress, more specifically the DEmocrats who ran Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac intothe ground.

I will agree with yo on one point however. I do not believe that either candidate has a real grasp of economics.

I quoate Miami Man
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
First of all, i am by all means against the war. The war was started under a false pretense. The Americans were conned and lied to by the elites, into actually believing that you guys needed a war.

The current fianancial meltdown is a problem many LOGICAL people actually predicted a long time ago. The reason you guys are in this mess is because you guys lived beyond your means. Let me talk about this at a macro level, lets the your empire bulding formula for instance. You guys are trying to police the world, without actually having any real funds whatsoever. You guys borrow from the Chinese, to fund your trillion dollar a year war. And when you need more credit, the federal reserve prints your USD till it reduces its value to that of mere paper. ITS A CRISIS THAT WAS WAITING TO HAPPEN!

The unprecedented greed by the special interest groups caused all this.

Obama talks about change, what change? He never talks about the real issues, e.g The Illegal bank : Federal Reserve.

Let me just give you guys a little of Obama's track record:

Obama voted against the Iraq war, but then later on voted to fund it.
Obama voted for the patriots act, which means enslavement in short.
Obama wants more troops in Afghanistan.
Obama is against the re-investigation of 9/11(HMM...I WONDER WHY..)

I have a longer list. I shall await a reply to further justify my argument

First of all, i am by all means against the war. The war was started under a false pretense. The Americans were conned and lied to by the elites, into actually believing that you guys needed a war.

Ok let's debunk this liberal myth right away. Have you READ the actual Joint Resolution to Authorize Military Action that was done in Congress and NOT the Oval Office? Probably not. Here is a link to it for you to peruse at your leisure.

http://www.whitehouse.gov/news/releases/...002-2.html

If you read it starts off with the fact the Iraq has flagrantly violated every international resolution it agreed to. Yes, it does mention WMD's but let's not forget who was in charge of the people gathering this info in the first place, a CLINTON appointee, not a Bush "crony." Again I don't give this president THAT much credit that he is able to "con" that many people at one time, especially the really "smart" ones like Clinton, Biden, Kerry, Edwards, etc. You know the ones that were claiming they were conned by the dumb guy sitting in the oval office right now. I mean what does that make them if he, "W" could con the smart ones?

The current financial meltdown is a problem many LOGICAL people actually predicted a long time ago. The reason you guys are in this mess is because you guys lived beyond your means. Let me talk about this at a macro level, lets the your empire bulding formula for instance. You guys are trying to police the world, without actually having any real funds whatsoever. You guys borrow from the Chinese, to fund your trillion dollar a year war. And when you need more credit, the federal reserve prints your USD till it reduces its value to that of mere paper. ITS A CRISIS THAT WAS WAITING TO HAPPEN!

What is this "you guys" stuff? I am presuming that you are not even an American citizen if you are referring to all of us as "you guys." Which makes me wonder why ANYONE would care about your opinion in this election since it appears to me and anyone reading this that you have no ability to even change it with your vote. But I digress...

The financial problem we see ourselves in now started with this ill-conceived and illogical idea that people have a right to have a mortgage and of course the liberals in Congress agreed and therefore perpetuated this idea by allowing banks to lend with no credit or income verification and then passed these "junk securities" on to the world markets. Democrats did this, not the Republicans. It was "W" that tried to get them to change the way they did business years ago and he was flatly denied under party lines. September 11, 2003 in fact was when he warned us against this and folks like Barny Frank and Chris Dodd acted like everything was fine when it wasn't. They even made it appear as if Bush was trying to take away homes from the poor!


The unprecedented greed by the special interest groups caused all this.

The predictable stupidity of the Democrats did this. Greed would have prevented a logical thinking capitalist from making these bad loans in the first place.

Obama talks about change, what change? He never talks about the real issues, e.g The Illegal bank : Federal Reserve.

Let me just give you guys a little of Obama's track record:

Obama voted against the Iraq war, but then later on voted to fund it.
Obama voted for the patriots act, which means enslavement in short.
Obama wants more troops in Afghanistan.
Obama is against the re-investigation of 9/11(HMM...I WONDER WHY..)
While I will agree with you about Obama's idea of "change" let's get some things clear here. Obama never voted for the war. I am not defending him only clarifying history. He wasn't in the Senate until 2006 so he couldn't have voted for or against anything before 2006. He has voted against continuing to fund the war. Obama wants a "surge" in Afghanistan but still claims that the surge failed in Iraq. The fact that Obama voted for re authorizing the Patriot Act after saying he would vote against it just is another example of how he will say anything to get elected. The Patriot Act is not however any kind of enslavement. Stop hyperventilating...
I have a longer list. I shall await a reply to further justify my argument


P.S. As I was spell-chcking this on MS Word 2003, the word "Obama" was flagged and the correction suggested was "Osama." True story, i did NOT make that up.

First of all, the Iraq was an undeclared war. Go do your research. While you are at it, you would also gather enough data(hopefully) to actually realise that an undeclared war is an illegal war. Hence my point.

My next point will lead us into the "I don't give this president THAT much credit that he is able to "con" that many people at one time". The sad thing is that many Americans and people around the world actually fail to see who pulls the strings. There is this illusion of choice encircling within your minds. This is truly flawed. There is this group, the Elites, the bigger corporations who actually pull all the strings. Bush, Cheney are all the puppets...The mass media (FOX etc) highly effectively promoted their preferred candidate( E.G Clinton, MCcain, Obama) and then surpressed the ones that actually could bring change(E.G Ron Paul). So my point is, to put it simply, the President does not call the shots. So don't be fooled. The public easily got conned after 9/11 and believed the Patriots Act was part of the "plan to stop terrorists". The public also got conned into believing that there was WMD and "AL Qaeda (CIA CREATED GROUP TO FIGHT THE MUJADEENS) in Iraq. In short, this gullibility got you guys into trouble. They even want to ride one over you guys with Iran. I find this laugable...truly..

About you blaming the democrats( I AM NO DEMOCRAT SUPPORTER). First of all, USA's foreign policies of late were contructed by the Republicans. To fund your war, your Government played monopoly with money. They sent the bill over to the Fed and created TRILLIONS of dollars. Your dollar is no longer backed by gold! It is just printed paper, thats it! Hence, the devaluation of the dollar and the hike in inflation. Its that simple. And do not get me started on the Chinese, who's money had been pouring in to finance your world empire. It would be unfair for you to sideline the democrats. What you guys need to no is actually strengthen base. You cannot work on a poor base and build up. You guys need to re-look your monetrary policy, and go back to Gold and Silver. Let me just give you an example, the price of oil has ACTUALLY been stable in terms of gold. That speaks for itself! I need not say more.

You tell me not to hyper-ventilate about the Patriots Act? Go research it somemore!! If you even care, go read your Constitution and tell me if you feel disgusted with the way your country is being run now. The current upper strature has plundered the constitution. It disgusts me truly. Lets look at history. Hitler bombed the Reichstag and blamed it on the Communists, and then used this as a false pretext to declare Fuhership and Martial Law. Simarly, the situation is the same after 9/11. The freedom in the USA is no longer what it was years years years and years ago. Do not look at the Patriots act in isolation my friend. See what an impact it has when complied with all the other draconic acts that have been passed of late, and more to come i am sure.

First of all, the Iraq was an undeclared war. Go do your research. While you are at it, you would also gather enough data(hopefully) to actually realise that an undeclared war is an illegal war. Hence my point.

Are you even reading what you write?
Both the congress and the UN authorized this war.
However like my past posts and unlike yours I have evidence to prove my point.

http://www.c-span.org/resources/pdf/hjres114.pdf
http://daccessdds.un.org/doc/UNDOC/GEN/N...penElement


My next point will lead us into the "I don't give this president THAT much credit that he is able to "con" that many people at one time". The sad thing is that many Americans and people around the world actually fail to see who pulls the strings. There is this illusion of choice encircling within your minds. This is truly flawed. There is this group, the Elites, the bigger corporations who actually pull all the strings. Bush, Cheney are all the puppets...The mass media (FOX etc) highly effectively promoted their preferred candidate( E.G Clinton, MCcain, Obama) and then surpressed the ones that actually could bring change(E.G Ron Paul). So my point is, to put it simply, the President does not call the shots. So don't be fooled. The public easily got conned after 9/11 and believed the Patriots Act was part of the "plan to stop terrorists". The public also got conned into believing that there was WMD and "AL Qaeda (CIA CREATED GROUP TO FIGHT THE MUJADEENS) in Iraq. In short, this gullibility got you guys into trouble. They even want to ride one over you guys with Iran. I find this laugable...truly..

About you blaming the democrats( I AM NO DEMOCRAT SUPPORTER). First of all, USA's foreign policies of late were contructed by the Republicans. To fund your war, your Government played monopoly with money. They sent the bill over to the Fed and created TRILLIONS of dollars. Your dollar is no longer backed by gold! It is just printed paper, thats it! Hence, the devaluation of the dollar and the hike in inflation. Its that simple. And do not get me started on the Chinese, who's money had been pouring in to finance your world empire. It would be unfair for you to sideline the democrats. What you guys need to no is actually strengthen base. You cannot work on a poor base and build up. You guys need to re-look your monetrary policy, and go back to Gold and Silver. Let me just give you an example, the price of oil has ACTUALLY been stable in terms of gold. That speaks for itself! I need not say more.

You tell me not to hyper-ventilate about the Patriots Act? Go research it somemore!! If you even care, go read your Constitution and tell me if you feel disgusted with the way your country is being run now. The current upper strature has plundered the constitution. It disgusts me truly. Lets look at history. Hitler bombed the Reichstag and blamed it on the Communists, and then used this as a false pretext to declare Fuhership and Martial Law. Simarly, the situation is the same after 9/11. The freedom in the USA is no longer what it was years years years and years ago. Do not look at the Patriots act in isolation my friend. See what an impact it has when complied with all the other draconic acts that have been passed of late, and more to come i am sure.

I would tell you that you missed a few folds in your tin-foil hat but any sane person reading what you wrote there already picked up on that...

My, my, my, with every post, you appear less credible, less intelligent, and well, TRULY AMERICAN. Perhaps i ought to educate you.

Just so you know, even a former head of the UN has already declared that the war was by all means illegal. The United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan has told the BBC the US-led invasion of Iraq was an illegal act that contravened the UN charter. You dont believe the FACTS ? Well go do your research , i will not waste my time arguing with someone who clearly lacks the understanding of the world that he lives in. The invasion was not sanctioned by the UN security council or in accordance with the UN's founding charter. I can't cannot believe my eyes when i see you writing in such an ignorant manner. Well, i must admit that i never had high expectations of you, but nevermind, that's just a personal opinion, i'd rather not cast or bestow that upon others.

Also, after my other two paragraphs , you simply proved your emptiness a notch further with that un-intellectual picture coupled with your one liner statement that lacked any substantiation whatsoever. I talk about the Federal Reserve , Martial Law(Rep. Brad Sherman said martial law would be declared if the banker bailout bill was not passed) any many other pivotal issues that many ignorant Americans like you fail to address ( I have met very critical thinking Americans, but i guess that they are the exception, not the norm) But you, fail to talk about it. Your lack of knowledge coupled with your ignorance is perhaps the leading reason....

Similarly, at a macro level, we see true logic being brought out by fantastic candidates(WHICH IS ALSO SHUNNED, SADLY), but i guess the dumbing down of society has pre-vailed ,as i observe when ever i read the posts or watch the news..

Anyways, i await your reply MiamiMan , and i hope this time, you have something intelligent to say. I do not have high expectations of you, and i am sure you will NOT prove me wrong. But, i look forward to your next post nevertheless....

My, my, my, with every post, you appear less credible, less intelligent, and well, TRULY AMERICAN. Perhaps i ought to educate you.

You must be a non-American. You know how I know this? First you think that by calling me a "true American" that is supposed to be insulting to me. Yes, sir, I am truly an American. Proud of it in fact. I served my country in the Army and continue to serve my community and proudly, unabashedly, patriotically, and undeniably truly American. Although it must really suck to have such envy to know that no matter how little you think of me that at the end of the day you still don't know the privilege of being an American. But let me educate YOU sir. It is America that has been the beacon of hope in this world, saved humanity over and over again and been the inspiration for this thing we call freedom. You couldn't possibly educate me on being an American. i can actually hear the envy in your words as I read them. It's the one thing that keeps all of us, liberal or conservative together and that is that we are Americans, and you are not.

Just so you know, even a former head of the UN has already declared that the war was by all means illegal.
The United Nations Secretary-General Kofi Annan has told the BBC the US-led invasion of Iraq was an illegal act that contravened the UN charter. You dont believe the FACTS ? Well go do your research , i will not waste my time arguing with someone who clearly lacks the understanding of the world that he lives in. The invasion was not sanctioned by the UN security council or in accordance with the UN's founding charter. I can't cannot believe my eyes when i see you writing in such an ignorant manner. Well, i must admit that i never had high expectations of you, but nevermind, that's just a personal opinion, i'd rather not cast or bestow that upon others.

Let's speak of who is more ignorant of the FACTS. If you read UN resolution 1441 it ALREADY sanctioned the use of force to enforce the rules that Iraq was breaking. Kofi Annan can say what he pleases but the reality is that the passage of the resolution already sanctioned this war. Not to mention that the US has never needed permission to conduct or declare a war. Congress approved of the action and that is ALL that is required by our Constitution. Try reading it sometime...

Also, after my other two paragraphs , you simply proved your emptiness a notch further with that un-intellectual picture coupled with your one liner statement that lacked any substantiation whatsoever. I talk about the Federal Reserve , Martial Law(Rep. Brad Sherman said martial law would be declared if the banker bailout bill was not passed) any many other pivotal issues that many ignorant Americans like you fail to address ( I have met very critical thinking Americans, but i guess that they are the exception, not the norm) But you, fail to talk about it. Your lack of knowledge coupled with your ignorance is perhaps the leading reason....

Man it does upset you that you are not American doesn't it? You know jealousy is a deadly sin!

Similarly, at a macro level, we see true logic being brought out by fantastic candidates(WHICH IS ALSO SHUNNED, SADLY), but i guess the dumbing down of society has pre-vailed ,as i observe when ever i read the posts or watch the news..

Yes because the ONLY dumb people are Americans right? Your very ignorance of how great a country I live in is only shdowed by your outright jealousy of not being a part of it

Anyways, i await your reply MiamiMan , and i hope this time, you have something intelligent to say. I do not have high expectations of you, and i am sure you will NOT prove me wrong. But, i look forward to your next post nevertheless....

I probably let you down. You are already having to contend with your envy of me as I am a proud American and you are one of the many jealous people that isn't.

jingod Wrote:Obama jumped personally into the day's national security fray, telling reporters his Republican critics have no "standing to suggest that they've learned a lot of lessons from 9-11."

Instead, he said, they "helped to engineer the distraction of the war in Iraq at a time when we could have pinned down the people who actually committed 9-11."

We heard Sen. Obama declare again the other night that his defense for not supporting the surge was that we should have never been in Iraq in the first place.(It was a "distraction") Please have Mr. Obama ask the people of the newly democratic country of Iraq, who's countries resources as well as there women were being raped by Saddam and his sons, if they feel that they would be better off if we had never gone in there.
Sen. Obama clearly stated that he would use military force to help defend against genocide in foreign countries yet he ignores that fact that the people of Iraq were being murdered by the hundreds of thousands and dumped in mass graves by the saddam Hussein regime.
Does Barak Obama REALLY believe that Iraq and the rest of the world would be better off if Saddam Hussain and his sons were still in power in Iraq??? Inquiring minds want to know!

Haha, i am jealous of not being American? Haha, please, don't flatter yourself and your "great" country. I mean c'mon, the dollars that you have in your wallet is not even backed by any hard assets! Its not an honest dollar, and its has no value, thanks to your Illegal Federal Reserve.

You seem to ride on the patriotic sentiments...C'MON, BE REALISTIC! Your country is in shambles and the worst is yet to come. Why would anyone be envious? A country that actually believes that Obama can bring "CHANGE", is truly not to be put in a high pedestial. A country that wants McCain for president , seriously needs to check if she has a screw loose in the head.

All you talk about is jealousy. Your most contains emotions. There is no proper evaluation of the facts. I see no argument, no highlighting issue, despite your "intellectual" attempt to carve out the hollowness of JEALOUSY as your argument. Why not you debate with me on the real issues? Dont be like the 2 candidates, why not you try to actually be intellectual and engage me for once?

Haha, i am jealous of not being American? Haha, please, don't flatter yourself and your "great" country. I mean c'mon, the dollars that you have in your wallet is not even backed by any hard assets! Its not an honest dollar, and its has no value, thanks to your Illegal Federal Reserve.

Your jealousy literally oozes from your pores! When our markets sneeze your country's banks catch the cold. And by the way I am not flattering myself, only stating an obvious fact. This country has done in the few years that it has existed what few countries have done. I am going to go out on a limb here (that's an American saying by the way...) and guess that you are probably in college too.

You seem to ride on the patriotic sentiments...C'MON, BE REALISTIC! Your country is in shambles and the worst is yet to come. Why would anyone be envious? A country that actually believes that Obama can bring "CHANGE", is truly not to be put in a high pedestial. A country that wants McCain for president , seriously needs to check if she has a screw loose in the head.

Yup, the jealousy is oozing from your skin. While I don't support Obama because he is the socialist that your countrymen probably want to run America our country still will go on regardless of the leaders we choose or any kind of strife that we have to endure. There is a thing that we like to call "American Exceptionalism" and it is a real entity. Something palpable in this country that you will never understand but only wish you could experience

All you talk about is jealousy. Your most contains emotions. There is no proper evaluation of the facts. I see no argument, no highlighting issue, despite your "intellectual" attempt to carve out the hollowness of JEALOUSY as your argument. Why not you debate with me on the real issues? Dont be like the 2 candidates, why not you try to actually be intellectual and engage me for once?
I would but we first have to acknowledge the very fact that the basis of your arguments is your obvious envy of Americans and the exceptionalism of being American. Until you confront that part of yourself your arguments will be hollow ones. Interesting that I ws able to quickly and accurately figure out ...(1) That you are not an American and (2) that you are obviosly envious of not being one. Look I can empathize with you, I am fortunate enough to be an American having been born here and having parents that emigrated here and becoming citizens. It HAS to suck that you are not American. I don;t know what I would do if I woke up tomorrow to find out that I wasn't an American! I am, however, happy to see that despite your obvious distress of having to ba a non-american that you have not decided to do something rash like suicide or self-mutilation.
FIGHT THE URGE!! Things will be better, maybe someday, God willing, you too will have the priviledge of having American citizenship.

My goodness. I don't know, whether to laugh at your reply or to worry. Are Americans dis-illusioned now? I mean c'mon, lets argue what i talk about , i.e the stuff that is actually going on! You keep going on and on about me being jealous. Any human worth a few cents can now become an American citizen! Its no big deal! But of course, you will refute, because you are an ignorant American after all.

Look here, i am not calling you ignorant because its a personal attack, rather, your mind is truly incapable of grasping the concepts and arguments that i have brought out in my previous posts. You have until now, yet to even debate me on an issue at an intellectual level. All you have done is label me "envious" , and that's frankly about it. You have not cast any interesting insight or any intelligent response to my post. My posts contain information and facts about what is affecting the world today, but you choose to digress and steer cleat of the argument. Well, maybe its because you cannot debate, because you clearly lack the depth to handle such a topic. Instead , you shoot off and keep talking about me being jealous.

Just so you know, your President has signed the North Atlantic Treaty, so practically all those people under the treaty are AMERICANS! Haha...Well lets just see how the NWO unfolds.

Anyways, you have yet to say anything even worth a cent. Well i guess i was right, you lack the intelligence ,credibility and that makes you a true American. May God INDEED save America!

My goodness. I don't know, whether to laugh at your reply or to worry. Are Americans dis-illusioned now? I mean c'mon, lets argue what i talk about , i.e the stuff that is actually going on! You keep going on and on about me being jealous. Any human worth a few cents can now become an American citizen! Its no big deal! But of course, you will refute, because you are an ignorant American after all.

Actually it IS the basis of your arguments; your obvious jealousy of Americans. Speaking of disillusion, let's get something clear. It is NOT that easy to become an American citizen. This is why many people try to sneak in to our country. I don't imagine that many Americans are desperately looking for a way out of this country into yours. Think about that for a minute. As "horrible" as you would like to convince yourself and others that this country is, we are having trouble keeping people out not in. Just because I recognize the greatness of this country doesn't make me ignorant, it makes me exceptional, something you obviously wish you were

Look here, i am not calling you ignorant because its a personal attack, rather, your mind is truly incapable of grasping the concepts and arguments that i have brought out in my previous posts. You have until now, yet to even debate me on an issue at an intellectual level. All you have done is label me "envious" , and that's frankly about it. You have not cast any interesting insight or any intelligent response to my post. My posts contain information and facts about what is affecting the world today, but you choose to digress and steer cleat of the argument. Well, maybe its because you cannot debate, because you clearly lack the depth to handle such a topic. Instead , you shoot off and keep talking about me being jealous.

I can debate you from the North Pole to the Australian deserts. But the basis of your false claims and obfiscated claims is that you are a jealous non-American. This is from where you base your claims all of which are based on falsehoods and pre-concieved notions about this country

Just so you know, your President has signed the North Atlantic Treaty, so practically all those people under the treaty are AMERICANS! Haha...Well lets just see how the NWO unfolds.

You see...This is what I mean. Where does this illusion that you have of our country come from? Obviously, it's roots are in the obvious jealousy you have of being a non-American. That treatay does NOT make someone an American citizen.

Speaking on ignarance...my arguments and claims have been backed up with citable sources whereas yours are more emotional and lack anything close to credible evidence. You blurt things out regarding the "illegality" of something when you clearly have no idea what is considered legal inthis country or not. Anyone can say what they want but without tangible evidence one has to consider other root causes for such incredulous stupidity. I believe that yours is the fact that you want so desperately to be an American, something special and far away for you.

But let's try this again. Show me in the NAFTA agrement where a citizen in Canada or Mexico is a citizen of the US. Please cite the exact source and line from the agreement, college boy

Anyways, you have yet to say anything even worth a cent. Well i guess i was right, you lack the intelligence ,credibility and that makes you a true American. May God INDEED save America!
Sir, please understand that I am not insulted by being called a true American. I have backed up my claims, you can't. I have pegged you for what you are because your very words betray you. Let me see if I can't do better here. I am going to guess that you are probably from a European country, maybe France or Germany.

Haha. Miamiman, miamiman, miamiman, poor poor miamiman. I have come to the conclusion that your lack of intellectual depth is not worth my time in typing. Your lack of substantiation is not worth even a grain of salt. Your abundance in ignorance is not worth my reading. In essence, you just are not worth the effort.

There you go again, saying that i am envious. If i am not wrong, you did mention the envious bit in your previous sub-standard posts. Noting new, and well, nothing ground breaking. You say that i am emotional? It is truly laughable, because for one, you keep riding on the patriotic sentiment,and second, you ignore basic facts and take critical facts as an insult to your wounded ego and nation alike.

I keep saying this, again and again, that you have until now to truly engage with me in a debate. Do you know why this is so? It is because you are sub-standard yourself and you simple lack the cornerstone of an average debator i.e COLD HARD FACTS.

Hardly, or never rather, have you ever raised an issue that is of real concern. Your sentences contain flawed information and lack any real substantiation, where your emotions seem to have a stronghold on every one of your sentence. I talk about the 9/11 commision report, Martial Law, the Federal Reserve , returning to a sound monetrary policy, just to name afew. You on the other hand, try to play the gypsy by guessing where i am from and labelling me as envious. Do you see how un-telligent your efforts are? You have failed(Its not your fault because its the fault of your mind, but i understand and am not against the ignorant or the intellectually challenged. I do not discriminate). For once, and i mean for once, can you just engage me in a factual and REAL debate for once, instead or just being nothing more than just a talk shop?

All you do is a mere attempt to pull out my sentences and make un-intellectual comments, soaked with the patrotic high with emotions, emotions and more emotions. I believe tears normally streak down your face after every post. Haha, you remind me of McCain, and come to think of it, you probably are his supporter.

Anyways, i look forward to your next attempt at a credible reply by your standard.

Haha. Miamiman, miamiman, miamiman, poor poor miamiman.
First of all I am not poor, far from it actually. Remember I live in the richest country on the globe, you don't

I have come to the conclusion that your lack of intellectual depth is not worth my time in typing. Your lack of substantiation is not worth even a grain of salt. Your abundance in ignorance is not worth my reading. In essence, you just are not worth the effort.
Hmmmm. Again your words betray you. For someone who doesn't think it is worth typing a reply to you sure typed quite a few of them. Obviously I am in your head. My "ignorance" is nothing more than a code word acknowledging your ill-fated attempt to wrestle with me on an intellectual level especially considering how deeply rooted your envy of America is. But again, if I am "not worth the effort" you sure made a long enough reply to make that very statement a false one




There you go again, saying that i am envious. If i am not wrong, you did mention the envious bit in your previous sub-standard posts. Noting new, and well, nothing ground breaking. You say that i am emotional? It is truly laughable, because for one, you keep riding on the patriotic sentiment,and second, you ignore basic facts and take critical facts as an insult to your wounded ego and nation alike.

You keep writing words to indicate laughter, which of course, is an emotion. But let's talk about my "sub standard" posts shall we? For every point you TRIED to make you have provided absolutely nothing in the form of credible evidence, citable sources, or even anecdotal evidence. You write such absurdities that something is illegal without providing PROOF that it is illegal. You make outrageous statements with even a cintilla of evidence to back it up. I have provided citable sources and credible evidence to support my arguments. But, I, am the ignorant one correct? Do you remember your last attempt to make sense?

You wrote:
"Just so you know, your President has signed the North Atlantic Treaty, so practically all those people under the treaty are AMERICANS!"

And I challenged you to provide the actual words in the treaty that would support this. You haven't been able to find it have you? Again you want to claim MY ignorance when you can't even back your own statements!
I keep saying this, again and again, that you have until now to truly engage with me in a debate. Do you know why this is so? It is because you are sub-standard yourself and you simple lack the cornerstone of an average debator i.e COLD HARD FACTS.

COLD HARD FACTS? Ok at the risk of making it look I am beating up a mental midget let's explore this idea here.

You made the claim that the wars we are in are "illegal" without providing anything but the fact that Kofi Annan believes it is illegal, nothing more than an opinion. I have provided citable legal sources for the legality of this war. You have shown almost no concept of what is legal or not and couldn't even provide the basis of your legal argument, I have with COLD HARD FACTS.

I provided citable sources whereas you only have conjecture, rumor, and hyperbole. So one must ask the quetion as to the root of this argument since there is nothing of a tangible nature like citable sources or references. The bulk of your argument has a very emotional overtone to it. Consider this for a moment, you TRIED to attack me by calling me a "true american" as if the automatic assumption is that "true americans" are ignorant people. Reading this automatically made me wonder who would make such assumptions but a non-american.

Therefore with the severe lack of credible, or actually, ANY frame of reference for your argument one must assume that the basis for these baseless arguments are of an emotional nature and one that is basd on the obvious envy of Americans.


Hardly, or never rather, have you ever raised an issue that is of real concern. Your sentences contain flawed information and lack any real substantiation, where your emotions seem to have a stronghold on every one of your sentence. I talk about the 9/11 commision report, Martial Law, the Federal Reserve , returning to a sound monetrary policy, just to name afew. You on the other hand, try to play the gypsy by guessing where i am from and labelling me as envious. Do you see how un-telligent your efforts are? You have failed(Its not your fault because its the fault of your mind, but i understand and am not against the ignorant or the intellectually challenged. I do not discriminate). For once, and i mean for once, can you just engage me in a factual and REAL debate for once, instead or just being nothing more than just a talk shop?

All you do is a mere attempt to pull out my sentences and make un-intellectual comments, soaked with the patrotic high with emotions, emotions and more emotions. I believe tears normally streak down your face after every post. Haha, you remind me of McCain, and come to think of it, you probably are his supporter.

Anyways, i look forward to your next attempt at a credible reply by your standard.

Wait a minute here. Your response started with

"I have come to the conclusion that your lack of intellectual depth is not worth my time in typing."

and then this little gem...
"In essence, you just are not worth the effort."

But then you end this silly rant of yours with...
" ...i look forward to your next attempt at a credible reply by your standard."

Are you always this duplicitous?

Look I have to be honest with you here. I am starting to think that if I keep slapping you down intellectually like I do that I am in danger of looking like a bully. Obviously your arguments lack anything credible and show your envy of everything American. Your arguments are severly clouded by this and prevent you from making any clear and/or concise statements. Then I come along and make you out for who you are. Hardly a challenge for me as you are truly out-gunned here.

Here's a couple of tips from me to you:
1. Try to frame your arguments in something along credible lines and not on emotion.
2. Understand that every time you try to use the "American" as some kind of insult it falls flat. It is not an insult and it appears to betray your envy of being a non-american.
3. Use sources that are citable. Here's an example:

For example if your argument was that "hummingbirds can travel up to 25 mph" then you would cite your source like this...
http://www.hummingbirds.net/faq.html

First of all I am not poor, far from it actually. Remember I live in the richest country on the globe, you don't(I quote you)

I said you were ignorant, and well i was right. Your nation is HEAVILY IN DEBT! Do you even know that your country is heavily indebted to the Chinese? Your country ( that i am apparently envious of) has borrowed heavily( just about as heavy as you guys are down there in America) from the Chinese just to fund your ILLEGAL war. And when you guys need more, haha, you start printing your money, courtesy of the Federal Reserve. You guys totally plunder the value of the USD, and are now in the face of another Depression. Kind of reminds be about the 1920s inflation that led to the 1930s depression. Despite all this, despite all your borrowing, you have the confidence to label yourself rich. I tell you what, go do some research. Check out the DEBT the USA is in in proportion to its GDP etc, and then compare it to other nations. Now, i would LOVE to hear you proclaim about your apparent wealth. Once again, you prove dumber than i thought you were.

Once again, me being envious has become the bulk of your argument . Well, i realise that you are never going to give up on that little beacon of hope that you have. Its pathetic, and quite frankly, quite low a point to use to discuss an intellectual ( or so i thought it was) argument.

Do not worry , you are by all means not bullying. In face, you look like that big doofus in school who simply cannot make it through. Firstly, you evade my points, e.g Federal Reserve all whatever that comes along with it.

Now let me propose, let us engage in a debate. Let me start, who do supprot for the coming elections and why? What does this candidate have that the others do not possess? What does this candidate offer in the long run? Now Miamiman, address this question. I look forward to your reply. I certainly hope the word "envious" does not turn up in your next post. Let us engage. I await your reply

First of all I am not poor, far from it actually. Remember I live in the richest country on the globe, you don't(I quote you)

Indeed I am not poor. Where was I wrong?

I said you were ignorant, and well i was right. Your nation is HEAVILY IN DEBT! Do you even know that your country is heavily indebted to the Chinese? Your country ( that i am apparently envious of) has borrowed heavily( just about as heavy as you guys are down there in America) from the Chinese just to fund your ILLEGAL war.

Again, let me point out that while you STILL claim that my war (as if I was the one personally conducting it) is illegal. I have provided proof of the legality of the war whereas we still wait and wait and wait for your supporting evidence.

And when you guys need more, haha, you start printing your money, courtesy of the Federal Reserve. You guys totally plunder the value of the USD, and are now in the face of another Depression.

Ok. Let me help you out here. We are not in a depression. And even if we were to enter a recession it would be short-lived as we have had this happen beofre and we survived. I have no doubt that with all of the "bad" news it is inherently dangerous to bet against the US economy. You will always lose. Our stock markets have had 7 crashes in its 112 year history and it has always come back. And if you really want to go after the US in regards to our debt you must ask yourself how this debt started. It started when the US was busy liberating other countries from themselves and others starting way back in WWI. Again, my proof versus your hyperbole.

Kind of reminds be about the 1920s inflation that led to the 1930s depression. Despite all this, despite all your borrowing, you have the confidence to label yourself rich.

I didn't say I was rich, I said that I wasn't poor. And even with the amount of debt we have we still are the richest country in the world. Our "poor" people in this country have a major problem. You want to know what that is? Obesity. Yes, our poor people are fat. Tell what country has to worry about poor people being too fat? Here is more proof, whereas you are STILL dealing in rumor and hyperbole.
http://www.gwu.edu/~labor/papers/hofferth.pdf


I tell you what, go do some research. Check out the DEBT the USA is in in proportion to its GDP etc, and then compare it to other nations. Now, i would LOVE to hear you proclaim about your apparent wealth. Once again, you prove dumber than i thought you were.

Wow. The jealousy is horrible. Let me ask you this; what country are you from and how many Americans do you see fleeing to it? ANSWER THAT FOR ME, if you can. It will require some courage however. Maybe the Great Oz can give it to you.
However with the risk of looking like an intellectual bully, again, I will, again, site sources that refute what you blurt out in your pathetic attempt to hide you jealousy.
http://www.oswego.edu/~edunne/debtmyths.html
But let's also remember who is the most charitable country as well.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_mos..._countries

Once again, me being envious has become the bulk of your argument . Well, i realise that you are never going to give up on that little beacon of hope that you have. Its pathetic, and quite frankly, quite low a point to use to discuss an intellectual ( or so i thought it was) argument.

No sir. It upsets you because I have struck a chord with you. I have pegged you for what you are. Just another jealous non-American. How else can you explain such a lack of credible sources for your positions

Do not worry , you are by all means not bullying. In face, you look like that big doofus in school who simply cannot make it through. Firstly, you evade my points, e.g Federal Reserve all whatever that comes along with it.
My my my. You know that envy IS a deadly sin right? Not only have I made it through to Friday but I have been "schooling" you with my citable sources the whole time. If anything I have been holding back sir. So what level of college are you in now, if I may ask?



Now let me propose, let us engage in a debate. Let me start, who do supprot for the coming elections and why? What does this candidate have that the others do not possess? What does this candidate offer in the long run? Now Miamiman, address this question. I look forward to your reply. I certainly hope the word "envious" does not turn up in your next post. Let us engage. I await your reply

I thought that you weren't going to respond? I guess you are not a man of your word. Typical.

I am supporting Senator McCain. Not because he is the best candidate but because he is the lesser of the two evils. Barak Obama simply has NO experience. His economic ideas are of a Marxist nature, he is into wealth redistribution, and he simply is too far to the left for me. While McCain is more conservative his leanings are not conservative enough for me. However I realize that with a Democratic Congress and a Leftist President it will be a dangerous time for the US. McCain has had 26 years in government service, has served my country in combat, bee the commander of a military unit and was one of the many republicans who tried, in vain, to get this Congress to get a grip on the mortgage problem. That is a very short list

I am still amazed at how many non-US citizens feel the need to become involved in our political process. What purpose does it serve?

Well Nobama2008 if you notice it stems from an overwhelming need to make themselves feel better about not being an American citizen. Misery loves company I guess.

Barack Obama: Citizen of the World!!

I am supporting Senator McCain. Not because he is the best candidate but because he is the lesser of the two evils. Barak Obama simply has NO experience. His economic ideas are of a Marxist nature, he is into wealth redistribution, and he simply is too far to the left for me. While McCain is more conservative his leanings are not conservative enough for me. However I realize that with a Democratic Congress and a Leftist President it will be a dangerous time for the US. McCain has had 26 years in government service, has served my country in combat, bee the commander of a military unit and was one of the many republicans who tried, in vain, to get this Congress to get a grip on the mortgage problem. That is a very short list (i quote you)


Mccain? Well his military experience is truly flawed. Do even know that the ranked the last 4, in other words, the 4th worst of his batch! Do you want a man like him to run the country? He left his wife to go for a younger woman who's dad beer business is blooming. Do you want a man who understands nothing of economics? When ron paul asked him a question, he could not even address it, and ended up looking like a fool. Do you want a man whose foreign policy has no difference from the one you guys have today (WHICH PUT YOU IN THIS MESS AT THE FIRST PLACE!) Do you want a man who liked that 400 ecomonists agreed with his policies ( Mccain later had to retract his comments as they were misleading and downright dishonest) Haha, the fact that you support this sorry excuse of a man goes deep to show your lack of understanding in the areana of politics....


I am still amazed at how many non-US citizens feel the need to become involved in our political process. What purpose does it serve? (I quote NOBAMA2008)

Unlike you guys, i actually study the economies and political structure of many other countries. I have subscribed to many other forums to discuss global events, e.g China, India. Do not worry, the USA alone does not matter to me, for i take a more global view on events. Forgive me if i choose to go beyond my shell